Perfectgonzo and the skinny on 4k

We thought its time to get some input from you guys about an upcoming feature, namely adding 4k as a download option for our movies. All scenes shot since Sept. 2014 are shot in full 4k so we will retroactively encode them and add them.

All that’s left to nail down is the bitrate.

Now that brings us to a bit of a scam the adult industry has been pulling on customers. It started 10 years ago with “HD movies” and continues today with “4k movies”. It seems customers are being deluded into believing marketing hype when they should really be asking: what bitrate is the movie encoded in? Rather than solely looking at resolution.

We have done some research and found many of our competitors encode their 4k movies at about 10-15 Mbit. In our humble opinion that’s grossly insufficient — actually that’s the bitrate we apply to our regular 1080p HD movies. You get the picture? If I upscale the image by a factor of 4 (two times two) but leave the bitrate unchanged then image quality is going to take a nosedive.

So here’s a one minute sample of what we’re looking at right now, after a lot of back and forth trying to find a compromise between image quality and file size:

3840×2160 @ 45 mbit VBR, approx. 375 MB per minute. A 45 minute scene will clock in at a whopping 16.8 GB.

Grab this 4k mp4 sample here. (right click, save as)

Opinions? Discuss! Let us know what you think :)

 

14 thoughts on “Perfectgonzo and the skinny on 4k

  1. Ivan

    My Mac is not fast enough to play 4K flawlessly and my screen is only 1080p, but I downloaded the clip and the image quality looks fantastic.

    I always care about bitrate, always – that’s one of my favorite things about you guys. Very few sites go anywhere near 12Mbps with 1080p content.

    To be perfectly honest 4K isn’t necessary, but would be very welcome when and if it arrives at PG.

    Thank you!

  2. Mark

    You are absolutely correct! A lot of sites advertise 4k, but the bitrate is horrendous and their 1080p vids actually look better. You guys have always used better encoding(12 MB/sec for fullHD) and I would very much welcome 4k from you guys at 45MB/sec! File size is never an issue for me, I have 4 and 6 TB drives and the most important thing to me is quality over quantity. So many non-enthusiasts bitch about file size because they are too cheap to buy a new hard drive, they would rather have as much low quality crap porn on their hard drive to avoid buying a new one. These are the same people that usually pirate anyway. Stick with what you have always done – offer excellent FullHD and hopefully soon 4k vids and don’t worry about file size! Also, these will look amazing on my ultra HDTV!!

    1. D Post author

      Godo points Mark. IMO hard drive space is becoming so cheap these days. I highly recommend getting a home NAS solution. They come with RAID for data security. One could easily get a setup offering 18 TB for under $1600 and they’re getting cheaper by the month. That’s a ton of storage for a gigantic 4k porn collection.. and all the unimportant stuff such as family photos and such :)

  3. BubbaGump

    The monitor I fap to porn with is 2560×1440, so while it’s not up to 4k standards it’s still better than 1080P/HD. To be honest I could only detect a slight improvement in the 4k sample’s quality vs a standard HD video from your site. Just a guess but I’m wondering if at 4k you are starting to bump up against some other limitations to image quality other than simply bitrate; namely lenses and camera image sensors. I know there is a lot of prosumer gear out there that can technically record 4k/UHD, but without a decent lens the final image is going to be soft at that resolution. Of course I have no idea what kind of equipment you use to record the images, but perhaps it’s time to upgrade in that department as well?

  4. CreampieManiac

    Google suggestions:
    1080p -> 8 MBit/s
    2160p -> 35-45 MBit/s

    Perfectgonzo videos are 12 MBit/s. The 4K sample downloadable from this post is at 51 MBit/s. The 4K video is apparently a bit better than 1080p on my 1920×1080 LED monitor. Probably I can’t notice a real improvement because 1080p PG videos have already at the highest quality.
    About the equipment: PG has one of the best camera for this purpose but I don’t know which lens they use (maybe a 35mm?). @BubbaGump: what makes you think PG gear is a limitation to image quality? Any clue or just an intuition?

    Take a look at this 4K video: https://youtu.be/xyIAV5YVjA4
    The YT bitrate is 5-10 MBit/s. The trick is the color grade.

  5. BubbaGump

    @CreampieManiac – I don’t have any inside information re: the equipment PG uses, so yeah, just an intuition. I don’t doubt they use high end cameras given the high quality of their 1080P content I happily consume. I think the PG videos show very high production values and that quality is why I remain a subscriber. I just think 4K is such a huge step up over 1080P that perhaps they need to reexamine then entire pipeline ( lighting, lenses, camera, color grade, and yes, bitrate) in order to deliver the full benefit of that extra resolution to their customers.

    Rewatching the 4K sample again I perceive a surprisingly shallow depth of field (especially given the extremely wide lens used) and a relatively long shutter speed with accompanying motion blur, so sharpness of detail is affected. I don’t think it’s a bad effect, just not what I would necessarily expect to see at 4K. A lot of the extra detail might be lost simply because there wasn’t enough light for a faster shutter/higher f-stop. There’s a big difference in resolving power between a $1K lens and a $10K lens, and the cheaper lenses, while fine for 1080P, might not be adequate for 4K.

    It’s a lot of extra bandwidth consumed and increased file size for not much added “quality”, imo. As someone who normally downloads the highest res available, I think I may have found my sweet spot at 1080P and will probably not download the 4K content. But I would certainly change my mind if I could see a big improvement. I’ll wait for the first full video with all resolution versions available and do a side by side comparison to see for myself.

  6. Slider

    Seems completely unnecessary, it would be much better if you improved your older material.
    1.5 Mbit and the encoding method you used is obviously not anywhere near the source.


    (if link does not work – http://imgbox.com/oSpGQf1K# )

    I really don’t care much about the new stuff…

    1. D Post author

      Hi Slider,

      our pre-HD scenes were shot in PAL @ approximately 720 x 576 progressive on DV tapes. We rescaled them to 512×384 @ 1.5mbit. Getting these remastered in the original DV tape resolution is tedious and labor intensive, while results might be disappointing by today’s standards because the source bitrate is very low.

      On a more positive note: we have about 220 HD scenes shot in 2006 which were we do not encoded as 1080p’s as of yet. We finally have the hardware and software together to finalize this remastering. I expect these to be online by Xmas of this year (in time for our 12th anniversary :) )

        1. D Post author

          I know I have promised this before — but now everything is in place for the re-encode and should be done before the end of the year. Crossing my fingers :)

  7. JV

    4k sounds great. What would also be great is to drop the over use of wide angle lenses. Its appropriate for some shots but nothing can be more distracting during a scene is to have an attractive girl getting railed while totally distorted.

  8. Xnr

    Damn 4k looks marvellous ! To be honest 35 mbit is good but its a bit high..The bitrate for 4k should be minimum 15mbit like u mentioned ur competitors. I think it should average around 25 mbit !
    Thanks you for providing 4k !

  9. mark

    Xnr quit being such a puss. 35mbit is too low. GO BIG or GO HOME. Keep it at 51 MBit/s. If you can’t download that size you should get better internet and keep quiet and continue downloading the bare minimum ratio, cause 4k is not meant nor intended for you. No reason to sacrifice quality to cater to people who shouldn’t be downloading the 4k link to begin with. Just my two cents.

  10. mark

    35mbit is too low. GO BIG or GO HOME. Keep it at 51 MBit/s. If you can’t download that size you should get better internet and keep quiet and continue downloading the bare minimum ratio, cause 4k is not meant nor intended for you. No reason to sacrifice quality to cater to people who shouldn’t be downloading the 4k link to begin with. Just my two cents.

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